How A Structured Mentorship Program Builds Hope Behind Bars, with Dr. Kim Nugent: Episode 383

The sound of a prison gate closing changes a person instantly and Dr. Kim Nugent has never forgotten it. She joins us to share what she’s learned after years of working inside facilities as a prison mentorship facilitator and author of From Prison to Possibilities Paving Your Path. We talk about why hope isn’t a “nice to have” behind bars, it’s a safety issue, a healing issue, and a culture issue. 

We walk through her structured mentorship program that runs about six to nine months and uses an A to Z curriculum to build real-life skills like attitude, behavior, communication, and decision making. Unlike mentorship that falls apart without a plan, this model includes weekly preparation, guided questions, small group discussion, a formal graduation, and a pipeline where mentees become mentors and mentors grow into advanced coaching roles. Dr. Nugent also explains why she opened access to people across security levels, including maximum security and those serving life sentences, and how shared lived experience helps the mentoring “stick.” 

We also get into the deeper transformation: spiritual grounding, purpose, and repairing family relationships while someone is still incarcerated. Dr. Nugent shares practical tools like conversation questions for partners and children, plus a powerful accountability exercise that starts with asking five people for honest feedback about your attitude. If you care about prison reform, rehabilitation, second chance programs, and reducing violence through real human development, you’ll take a lot from this conversation. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back, listeners. I'm Robin Black, and this is It's All About Healing Podcast. Today we have a very special guest, Dr. Kim Nugent. She is a prison mentorship facilitator, and she's going to tell us a little bit about her and what she does on this journey. Thank you so much, Kim. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for the invitation. I'm excited about this. No problem at all. So tell us a little bit about your career path.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

So I was very fortunate early on. I knew I I ended up in the hospitality industry. I was working for a little restaurant, and then that became my love. So I went to school and got a degree in hotel and restaurant management and spent over 20 years in the hospitality industry. So I might describe myself in everything that I do as really servant leadership, which then led me. I really, though, in college, I wanted, I had a teacher that was phenomenal, and he made teaching look so easy. I found out it wasn't. But in the meantime, I knew that I wanted to teach something I knew something about, needed the experience. So I went back to school, earned my doctorate, and then ended up wanting to be a faculty member at the college level, which I did. And then I, because I had administrative experience, I ended up becoming after a teacher, then a dean, and so on and so forth, and ultimately became a university president. And, you know, whether whether it was in the hospitality industry or higher education, I really believe in second chances. People make mistakes. And I had written a few books already in the leadership space and mentorship. And I just a fellow author asked me if I would write a book on mentorship in prisons. And Rob and I said yes. I didn't know him. He really just had been doing some volunteer work and he thought it would be a really interesting perspective. And I said yes, then hung up the phone and said, Oh my gosh, what did I say yes to? But it felt right. I don't know if you've had those moments when you say yes to something and you're not sure how it's going to happen. But then I also knew I don't write about things I don't know. So I spent about four years heavily researching every part of the corrections industry, you know, all kinds of programs. And then at that point, I wrote my first book around this. And it's called From Prison to Possibilities, Paving Your Path.

Building The A To Z Mentorship

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yes. Okay. Wow, that's a lot. So and with your program, I know before this you stated that it was a six to nine month program. Tell us, can you get in a little bit more detail about that program?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that I know, you know, I'm also a coach, and one of the things I know is when you're working with clients, you're working with a whole person. You're not working with just one thing. So the approach of the book is actually the first week is really about them getting getting connected. Second week is really about focusing on character strength. For people who are serving is for gifts, and that's a very deep conversation. Then after that, we go A to Z. So A is for attitude, B is for behavior, C is for communication, D decision making, and so on. So it's it's a structured program because most mentorship programs fall apart because there's no structure. So they read a pet about a page and a half to kind of tee them up, if you will. And then the mentees actually complete questions prior to coming to their weekly meeting. Then the mentors have a set of questions similar but different. And then they lead a small group discussion over, you know, again, I say six to nine months. It's really a six and a half month, six and a half month program, except that they're a lockdown. So the reality is it doesn't flow like it's on the paper, right? And so at the very end of that, the most exciting thing for me is when we start in the ending, in the that we have a formal graduation, they receive certificates, the mentees and mentors, several of them have a part in the program. And then they really talk about the impact of having a mentor or something that happened during this time together. And then when we finish, I the mentors, you know, if they still have time, and many of them have life sentences, just so you know, then if they want to continue to be a part of the program, I teach them advanced coaching skills. They're not a certified coach, but I want to take and then elevate their skill set. They've learned so much. And then what they do is they actually help the administration continue with that next cohort. So the mentors, I stay and I train the mentees to be mentors, the mentors to be coaches, and that we do rinse and repeat. And so the real model for me is when you have lived experience or shared experience and it's a mentorship program, you're more likely to get better results than you know, someone coming in off the street who has not walked this path. The other thing that we do is by the time I get to come back to the prison facility, or usually around the fourth time, could be earlier, sometimes the third time, there will be a person who just sort of has found his purpose in a new and completely different way and is so intrigued with the material and the topic. And usually I will ask them, would you like to co-facilitate with me? And they'll say yes. And so we do that for that next group. And then finally I'll say, you know, would you like to be me? You can take this program and teach it inside this facility. They can also take the program if they leave outside the facility. They're welcome to do that as well. So for me, I want to give, I mean, I want to be able to, it's their program. I yes, I wrote the book, but honestly, the way it works is because it is their program and they own it. And we definitely hold them to higher standards. And the the thing I'm most proud of, probably more than anything else, because they really take it that seriously, the they have been able to reduce rule violations dramatically in all the facilities I'm in. And that's very important to me because it's safer for the staff and safer for the residents. And so you talk about shifting a culture that is definitely happening.

Who Qualifies And How They Join

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Okay. And then so you said some of these mentors and mentees are on are actually serving life sentences. So what do they have to do to actually qualify for this program? Or how exactly do they go about gaining access?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

That's a very good question. So, you know, I'm sure that if you look back in your past and you think about, hey, I knew this when I started my podcast. And but if you look now, you've learned a lot of things along the way that maybe you didn't know when you first started. Well, that's the way I feel about working inside prisons. So in the beginning, um, the very time I go into a prison, the Gordon will actually select the first group because I don't have I don't know anybody. And originally we did have criteria that's very different now than it was then. So my thinking, it was wrong, but my thinking was that we would have someone who only had nine months to two years left on their sentence, and then they had to have a good conduct record. And then that we did have a couple of crimes that they might not be eligible for in the beginning. After that second, after the first graduation, we said, no way. Any it's open to anyone. If you have the desire to be a part of the program, we will take you. I don't care if it's maximum security, minimum security, moderate security. Don't care if you have, I mean, I do care, you need to be there at least six months. But after that, you can have a life sentence and you are definitely eligible. And this last class month ago in Mississippi, it was 75 people graduated and 30% were maximum security residents, which it was on it was so exciting to me because programming is typically not available for people who have who have that kind of sentence. And so if you really want real change inside a facility, you know, let's open up these programs to anyone who would like to be able to transform their life.

Purpose, Healing, And Family Repair

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I really love that. So it's kind of like I feel like because you know how you said that they they find God when they're actually, you know, doing their sentence as well, serving their sentence. But I feel that it also gain they gain purpose, right? And meaning to be able to help others. And when they so when the mentees become the mentor, who exactly are they mentoring? And are they mentoring while they're still inside?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yes, always inside. My program doesn't go outside. There are so many fantastic organizations, nonprofits around the United States that really help do that. So my my work is inside, but I want to say a couple of things that you said. The first thing is that these men, regardless whether they're mentee, mentor, whatever, they do find their purpose. And to me, that's exciting because that's a reason to get out of bed. And I don't care what your crime is, when you have the opportunity to make a difference with somebody else, that's a healing all into yourself. When you can pour into somebody else, you stop thinking about yourself so much, and now the world looks very different. Yeah. And that, you know, that's a good thing. The other part of that about the curriculum is that, you know, when I think about people, and I learned this from college students, honestly. I learned it from training and development in the hospitality industry, is you're whenever we're training somebody, we're not just training a task or a behavior, we're training a whole person. And so the program really focuses a lot on soft skills, then employability skills and career development, and then a very robust, very practical set of a post-release plan that they need to develop for themselves, the documentation they're going to need. And then what I did this last time, this is the third edition of this book. And what I realized in the last couple of years working with the gentleman is that they, to me, while they're inside is the time, it's dress rehearsal for real life. And so not waiting until you leave to get reunited with your family or your children, that work can start now. So at the very back end of the book, I give them a set of 52 questions to talk differently with their partner, who's probably still with the, you know, the children. Then I give a set of 52 questions to talk to your children, because it's got to be hard, you know, if your parent is incarcerated. And then your family, how do you explain that? Because they have they have feelings around all of that as well. And so how do you can I want them to? I know what happens. It's not a want to. What actually happens in the beginning is sometimes those conversations or maybe when they call home, it's more self-centered. I'll say it that way. Yeah. And then what shifts in the program is they start inquiring about, you know, how are you doing? How are the children doing? How can I support you? You know, even though I'm on the inside, you know, let me help you work through some challenges. And that starts to shift families.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah. Man, so so in this whole process, they're actually healing as well. And they're kind of healing themselves in a sense, right? It's like this program really helps them heal all around.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yes. And I'm so glad you said something a few minutes ago, which is, you know, in terms of, I do believe that when real healing starts, there has to be some kind of transformation, some kind of spiritual transformation first and foremost, if it's going to stick. So that's one thing. But there is a spiritual foundation in my book throughout. And I think you and your audience might appreciate this, but when I wrote the first edition, when I was ready to start to write, and I finished the book, Robin, I looked at that book and I said, Where did that come from? I have no real memory, I mean, of writing the book. I have a hard copy of this book, yes. What I meant was that was a God thing. Yeah. And I I've written a lot of books, but I've never had that experience before.

New Editions And Mentor Feedback

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Oh my goodness, they gave me chills. And Dr. Nugent, so how long have you been doing this so far? Five years. Five years. And you wrote your book five years ago as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

So I wrote the first one five years ago, and then I've had two more editions. So the latest edition is the third edition. It's still called the same thing. I just don't, we don't offer first and second edition anymore. And the reason I did it this way is because every time I learn something, I want to give them the latest and greatest information. So, and as I listen to them, I'm really listening carefully about what do they need now in this moment. And so that's why it's important to me to keep this material fresh, you know, particularly for people who are serving a life sentence, you know, they're gonna get tired of reading the same thing over and over again. And so this book is all new. And I told them everything, the A to Z structure is still the same. All the content is new, the way it's structured is new, and that's exciting for me. And I think it well, that was exciting. Also, in this book in particular, I had been evaluated, I've been handing out evaluations for every program I've been in, and I I held on to the paper copies, right? And so, you know, I didn't really know what I was gonna do with that information, but in this book, I've taken I have a chapter that's really, you know, advice from the mentors and what the impact was for them personally. And then throughout, I have half of it, half of the letters have scripture, and the other half are actually the letter that or the topic that impacted that particular mentor the most. And I had their their names next to it. So when I went back this last time and gave them the new copies of the book, they were so excited to see their name in the book, and I was excited too, because that's that means everything to me.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

And you said you gave them evaluations. So what exactly were they evaluating?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Really the program. So, you know, I asked them, you know, have you ever had a mentor? You know, what was the impact of having a mentor? If it was a mentee, what letter in the book in particular was the you know the one that really had the biggest impact in your life and and why? And if you were gonna give advice to somebody specifically about this program, what would it be? You know, and really how is it how's it changed you? I mean, very simple questions, but very impactful questions to me.

Hope Inside Prison And Less Violence

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Right. And so with this program, how exactly does that help the hopelessness inside, you know, where that translate into violence, right? Exactly. How do they cope with that?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So, I mean, every prison, no matter how great the staff is and how how great the programming is and everything else, is it's difficult. You know, when I think about Robin, the very first time I went into a prison just to take the tour, not to teach or anything, the thing that you know, that's hard is you know, this the the noise, the number of people, the lighting. I mean, there are just so many things that are just basic things that you would never think about. And that, and then really when you walk through that first door, once you're inside and that gate hits the wall, you know, that's a sound I will never get out of my head. Yeah, and that's when you know for sure, even the strongest guys, they know my life just changed right now and and not in a good way, yeah. And so, but the program does get hope, give hope. So originally, and I'm gonna talk about two specific prisons, but they had programs, they had like a GED program and they had a couple of other programs, but the signup rate was very low, and that they weren't committed to that outcome, obviously, but that that was just the reality. Because when we went in prison of possibilities, it's a new program, you know, people don't know, and they and all of that. After they got that, they wanted more, which made me happy. So they they started filling up the GED classes, the anger management classes, and any other class that they had available. And that's what I want because you know, yes, it's very easy to be hopeless in a prison. What I find instead, though, is that they want to learn, they want to do better, and when they know better, they do better every single time. I think what's refreshing for them, only because they've told me, is that you know, there's plenty of volunteers that go into prisons. And, you know, whether it's you know, Kairos Ministry, Mike Barber Ministry, Bridges to Life, whatever, you know, the prison entrepreneurship, tons of prisons out. I mean, tons of programs out there. But when you see somebody from the outside giving up their personal time to come in and pour into you, and one of the things I always say is you are not forgotten, you know, there are people thinking about you. And that I think they they need to hear that often, and they need to know that you're gonna continue to show up because they're so used to being disappointed in their life that it's really important that you keep your word with them.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I like that. Thank you for that. And so as far as the violence, has this program like so far has it shown tremendous, you know, like okay, this is definitely working, or okay, okay. And so they'll be able to do this at home with their with their families and or not, I can't say at home, my my apologies, but when they're speaking to their families and when their families come to visit, they're able to kind of shed this light on them and kind of go over what they're learning in this in this program as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes, and actually funny you said that because what happens is you know, it's generally, you know, we don't get into A for attitude until week three. And so as they're learning, then they when they call home, then they tell them about, hey, I'm in this class or whatever. Actually, I will say even more than that. So I'll tell you where it starts. It starts in week three because attitude their their homework for that class is they have to interview five people about their attitude. I use a lot of coaching techniques, so and I always say, you know, you can use, you know, it could be the chaplain, it could be a teacher, it could be one of the correctional officers, it could be the warden, don't really care. But I say if you're really brave, you'll call home and ask them about your attitude, and they will not hold anything back.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

And I say the only thing you're supposed to say when they tell you whatever it is, you say thank you. And that will be surprising to them. They're they're probably gonna think, hey, we're gonna argue if I tell you the truth. Nope. You say thank you, you record that, and you come back to class and you tell us how it went. I love that.

Training Mentors And Supporting Facilities

SPEAKER_01 18:36

I love that so much. And where where exactly are you located?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

I'm in Houston, Texas. I do a lot of work in Mississippi. I've done work in Florida and a couple of state jails in Texas, but my focus right now is really Mississippi.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Okay, and is that eventually going to expand? That is the goal. Oh my goodness, that is that is just wow. That is, I I love that because it's you're bringing hope to so many people, and and that's just amazing, especially for those who are serving life sentences. Now, is there a lot of people serving life sentences?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, wow. Uh it more than it should be, honestly. It's just you know, that's a whole different topic, but I want to go back to something else. So after I do the two and a half days of training, I'm training the the residents directly. We and and I take nothing for granted. Being having been a teacher, I want them to feel very confident when they make the commitment at the end of this to be able to say, Yes, I want to be a mentor. So we do readings, self-reflection, conversation, they do role playing, they do one-on-one role playing, then they do sm they do pair shares, and then we do small group. And then I switch up the groups because you know, they may not know who's gonna be in their group, and that person or persons will be different age, background, ethnicity, definitely different way of thinking. And so they've got to manage all of that inside their small group weekly meetings, and that is really challenging, you know, because they're working on not being triggered by anything or, you know, trying to say too much. So they learn really good coaching skills, how to ask questions instead of talking all the time. And that's been really powerful to see how much they have changed and how much they have grown. And how much time is allotted for you to spend with them? I get two and a half days. I could, you know, that we can do, I can set them up for six weeks and feeling comfortable. Now, I do not leave them. So let me say it differently. So that's that's the first thing that happens. My commitment is I call the facility back every single week. We have a set call, and then I talk to it, could be the principal, the programming warden, it could be the chaplain, it could be all three of them. And it also could be one of the lead mentors, if you will, sits in and then I will ask, you know, uh, where are you? How did you tee up this week? You know, how are you going to introduce the topic this week just to make sure there are some more difficult topics in there? And a lot of times the facility may actually have may actually have someone on staff that can help to be able to help have extra support. So for example, when we get into F for finance, any I don't know their background, right? So they may know something about finance, they may not know anything, but there's probably a GED teacher who's teaching math and or something that can step in and if they need some assistance about how to develop a budget or if they have more advanced questions, something like that. A lot of prisons also that we get into P for PTSG term a professional at the part of that conversation to help get a question that they can't answer. Additional I also like I say I'm calling every week to support the they need additional resources.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

They don't have the so a lot of times I can do the research for them to send it back to the programming warden to Okay, and so when you're actually going to the prison, what how much time is allotted when you're going there? I get two and a half days, like so so they're actually real bad too much. Okay, okay, that's that's what I was that's what I was wondering. Okay. So that's yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Start at eight o'clock. Eight o'clock, we end at five. They have lunch, you know, and they have to stay for count okay, and then the third day is about a half a day. What we you know that you know, I always say tell them at the beginning, you're happy you're here. And I take that for this program. You don't say we're gonna go through this, but at the end at the end of it, you just say commitment. Either way, it's fine. If it's a yes, great. I'm gonna say you're gonna the warden will be in here and you'll shake his or her hand and you'll say, Yes, I want to do this, I'm making that commitment. If you're a no, that's fine, we part friends. And the reason is I can't have you be a maybe is I cannot have these men disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

And for three weeks or whatever, say I think your connection's messen up just a little bit. Can you hear me, Dr. Nigent? I can hear you. Can you still hear me? Oh, okay. And so this program is it co-ed or is it is it co-ed or is it men only or women only or well most prison facilities are only men or or only women?

SPEAKER_00 24:04

93% of the people so in prison today are male are men.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Okay, so this program works for either men or women. I mean it works for men or women. I understand that. I mean, for your program, do you do both men and women, or are you just focusing on only on mentoring men?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

It's a good question. I actually started out with women first, but the need is so much greater for men, that's where the focus has become. Okay, yes, it works for men or women. Yes, absolutely.

How Families, Employers, And Churches Help

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Okay, yeah. Okay, that's what I was wondering. Okay, well, thank you. Wow, that is that is phenomenal. And I really do feel that that's gonna help a lot of people, and I really do hope that that's able to expand. And if there was anything that you could add, what advice, what is the number one piece of advice that you would give to families of you know, people who are incarcerated or anything of that nature?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

You know, I think, well, let me just, I don't know if you know the numbers, but 50% of all families in the United States have a family member or friend incarcerated or has been. Those are big numbers. But what I would say is that anybody about anybody can get involved, and you don't even have to go to a prison to do that. You know, if people wrote to their senator, congressperson, or their local representative to just advocate for programming because 50% of the programs in the U.S. do not have any programming, that would be the first step. If your audience is an employer, could they consider being a second chance employer? We just need more. There's a labor shortage. You have really good, hardworking people, they just want a shot when they get out. We make it so hard for them. And then the last thing I would say is churches, believe it or not. I really feel strongly that churches, if I had a magic wand, that they would open up their doors and be more welcome, welcoming to people who have records and have get connected groups. Every church calls it something different, but where you can have a small group where they feel like they have a true family, that would be amazing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And it's well, does anyone have access to your book or is it only available in certain areas? Okay. Amazon has it. Awesome. Okay, so I just wanted to double check. So I will definitely go ahead and link that in the in the in the show notes below as well. And again, one more time, what was the name of that book?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

From Prison to Possibilities Paving Your Path.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Thank you again so much for coming on. It has been such an enjoyment just hearing all of this, and it's extremely informative. So I do thank you for that. Thank you for the opportunity. No problem. And again, I'm Robin Black. This is It's All About Healing Podcast. Everyone, stay blessed.